42jeff
Junior Member
Posts: 68
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Post by 42jeff on Sept 21, 2007 22:29:06 GMT -5
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42jeff
Junior Member
Posts: 68
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Post by 42jeff on Sept 21, 2007 22:29:58 GMT -5
Okay for some reason the board doesn't like my link so you'll have to copy and paste it.
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Post by Benjamin Morgan on Sept 22, 2007 10:26:22 GMT -5
Yeah, I saw Bill Maher talking about this. It is retarded. I am not a supporter of most of moveon's principles, but I do believe it's within their right to say what they want. First Amendment. And the Senate has voted that they are above our Constitution. Here's another article: www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8RPBHO80&show_article=1I don't agree with moveon's Patreus-bashing (whether he's a puppet or not) but I believe in their freedom to say what they want. Moveon has become what the American people are supposed to be. They are supposed to let the representatives in Congress know how they feel about issues and their representatives are supposed to vote on issues based on that. Moveon is now the representative, collectively, for the Democratic party. And if the leading (key word, not all) Democrat candidates are listening, then maybe that's what they should represent. The principle is there but it's in the wrong place. The power needs to be in the hands of all American citizens. Unfortunately, most don't care to get involved. But I think this will be one of the biggest voter turnouts in a long time. People are sick of Bush. They are desperate for change. And I'm sick of the Republicans crying like babies every time someone speaks up in this country. They gotta censure everyone. This isn't the first time it's happened. It was called the Sedition Act of 1798. The Sedition Act says anyone "opposing or resisting any law of the United States, or any act of the President of the United States" could be imprisoned for up to two years. It was also illegal to "write, print, utter, or publish" anything critical of the president or Congress. Sound familiar? |
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demsul
Junior Member
Posts: 96
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Post by demsul on Sept 22, 2007 14:59:52 GMT -5
Moveon.org is a weasel organization. When we have troops in the field fighting and dying you don't run some BS add disparaging the commander who is leading them. Moveon represents a small segment of America but the leading Defeatocrats continue to kiss their a**.
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Post by Benjamin Morgan on Sept 22, 2007 15:08:47 GMT -5
Moveon.org is a weasel organization. When we have troops in the field fighting and dying you don't run some BS add disparaging the commander who is leading them. Moveon represents a small segment of America but the leading Defeatocrats continue to kiss their a**. Wow, you really hate them. That's not a good word either. I am not a member of moveon.org but I do respect their right to speak out. That's what this country needs. We need doubt in our awful president. We need people to care. "When we have troops in the field fighting and dying..."? What are they dying for? They want the troops back home with their families instead of dying by the thousands. This war is not worth that many American lives. No, I don't know everything about it. But if it was worth all those lives, it's the responsibility of our government to tell us why. Or at least provide a good reason why. And they haven't. |
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demsul
Junior Member
Posts: 96
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Post by demsul on Sept 22, 2007 15:20:14 GMT -5
Most actually want to win and complete the mission. Course you ask any soldier deployed if he would want to go home and of course they will say yes. Ask them if they want to go home without finishing their mission and the answer changes. Everyone thought the Iraqis had WMD's. The Clinton's, Owl Gore, Kerry. the UN, France, etc. So, we didn't find masses of WMD's We went in with too few troops to secure larges areas and then Sec. Rumsfeld refused to admit that an insurgency was taking place. Instead of fighting a Counter insurgency war, we continued to fight a conventional one. Gen. Petreaus is now putting COIN into effect and it is paying dividends. The US can win this thing if Congress can quit putting winnning elections a head of winning a war.
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Post by Benjamin Morgan on Sept 22, 2007 15:34:26 GMT -5
Win this thing? With 10 years and a million soldiers' lives. That's the path we're on. Powell has already admitted that he was lied to when he gave that speech. His Chief of Staff says he still can't sleep thinking about the lives he's cost. We were lied to by a greedy, conniving little man.
Sure, every soldier wants to complete the mission. But you and I know all too well that when you're told to do something, you do it. There is a camaraderie that goes on; in war more than any where else. They don't want to leave their friends in battle. Soldiers are "trained" not to question orders, to carry them out. There's a bit of brain-washing that goes on. It's not bad, of course; as long as it's being used for good means.
What's going on over there isn't worth 3,797 American lives (plus how many injured?).
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demsul
Junior Member
Posts: 96
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Post by demsul on Sept 22, 2007 17:51:57 GMT -5
Yep, Saddam did lie to us, the UN lied to us, Germany lied to us, Russia lied to us, France lied to us. Everyone was saying the same thing about WMD's. And yes, WIN. If America is going to send me to war I want to WIN and not be second place. 3,797 lives? Yep that sucks but in the bigger scheme we lost about that much on Utah beach. Everyone was on board when the polls were showing over 70% of America behind the war. Now when public opinion has dropped, all the politicians are against it before they were for it. We'll just have to disagree on this one. I'll still drink beer with ya though.  |
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